Reaction formation in gay necrophiles

[Meatpie]

I started reading books by Sigmund Freud when I was 11.

Honestly at first I had no idea what he was talking about. But I read it again. And once more for a thrid time.

My mother caught me and told my teachers.

They were all surprised "Jesus Christ this is rare. How can you give him such books he is too young for this."

I overheard their conversation.

My mother then removed the book from our library at home and bought fantasy books for kids & superhero comics. Never, never liked them.

My second favourite book was atlas of human anatomy.

I am 29 now and would like to discuss reaction formation in necrophiles.

Reaction formation is one of the most difficult but also one of the most beautiful concepts in psychology.

It's a defence mechanism of the brain that controls our unacceptable impulses by exaggerating the opposite emotion.

In a scientifc paper titled "Sexual attraction to corpses: A psychiatric review of necrophilia" published in 1989 the authors claim that necrophiles are actually fearful of the dead but through reaction formation this turns into an irresistible desire for corpses.

There are many other shocking examples.

A heterosexual man who is extremely hateful against gays may be seeking to counteract deep-seated and often untouched homosexual desires. This is all on a subconscious level.

A reaction formation is used to exaggerate heterosexual behavior outwardly, to relieve inward anxiety regarding homosexual desires.

Please once again note that reaction formation happens only in our subconscious.

When an individual cannot deal with reality and their necro desires anxiety develops. The brain then builds a reaction formation to deal with the anxiety.

A sadistic gay necrophile then turns into the most loving partner on Earth, will never hurt a fly and is described by other people as "awesome, loving, caring dude".

Agree or disagree?

The human brain is the most complex thing in the known universe.

I myself have developed a reaction formation (necro) in early childhood against my fear of death & dead bodies.

Please discuss.

Do other people describe you as a caring, loving dude?

 

[butchyboy]

Makes total sense to me...

 

[Meatpie]

Really? What's your reaction formation?

 

[Nineteen]

I am regularly described as being 'nice', 'good listener', thoughtful, empathetic etc. Bartender/friend last week said I was ' the nicest person in our town' - maybe because I tip her so well, ha. But I do out of my way to be extra nice both because it is the right thing to do and because a small town funeral home depends very much on the reputation of its morticians.
However; Im still consciously aware of the fact that I am attracted to corpses, mutilation dismemberment and autopsy make them more attractive. Maybe reaction formation, or maybe it is that I feel sorry for them? I remember reading a post somewhere that somebody was attracted to bodies because he felt sorry for them and related to them because they were 'discarded, unwanted, found by others to be repulsive" and he gained some sort of power by feeling pity for someone. What do you feel towards them?

 

[New Yorker]

This is the beauty of psychology. Unlike hard sciences, psychology cannot provide a general and universal theory that explains all forms of human behavior.

My problem with the theory that necrophilia may be caused by reaction formation is that it solves a problem by creating a far worse problem. According to Freudian theory, there is a constant battle between the id (our impulses) and the superego (our understanding of what is right and wrong). The id is very liberating and the superego is very conservative. Ultimatelly, the ego serves as the mediator and decides, based on the needs of the id and on the restrictions of the superego what kind of behavior we can engage into.

However, what detirmines and teaches the superego what is right or wrong? Pretty much everuthing we understand as "moral" or "acceptable" is a reflection of social vlues. Society detirmines what is right and wrong and the superego absorbs that information.

Think about homophobics who are gay themselves. They were in most cases taught that homosexuality is abominable so the superego sees the id's homosexual tendencies are extremily threatining to the individual as it might undermine the individual's place in society. Hence, the superego overshadows the id in a very unhealthy way.

Another example is the concept of youth and beauty in the US. In America we are taught that beuing young and beautiful is important. Most people then start to despise the idea of aging and do everything they can to stop the aging process. In this situation reaction formation makes us despise whatever is old and aging. You might say that this is not a social process, but most societies are not as concerned with aging as we are in the US.

My point with these examples is that reaction formation is a way for us to protect ourselves from our own fears and insecurities, most of which are a reflection of social constructs.

The problem is that necrophilia has never been socially accepted. Those of us who are into necrophilia are in a far more vulnerable position in society than those who are just afraid of death. My point is that it doesnt feel like a good trade.

Then again, the human psyche has very creative and sometimes destructive ways to deal with cognitive disonance which is the state when we hold two diferent ideas that are paradoxical. Most people dont like to be wrong and they will do anything (even engaging in behavior that they know will result in failure) before acknoledging they are wrong and rethink their perceptions of life.

I guess we can debate all we want. The only way to be sure is bt doing empirical research. Unfortunatelly, necrophilia is not a pressing issue in psychology so we may never have our answer.

 

[Meatpie]

I am regularly described as being 'nice', 'good listener', thoughtful, empathetic etc. Bartender/friend last week said I was ' the nicest person in our town' - maybe because I tip her so well, ha. But I do out of my way to be extra nice both because it is the right thing to do and because a small town funeral home depends very much on the reputation of its morticians.
However; Im still consciously aware of the fact that I am attracted to corpses, mutilation dismemberment and autopsy make them more attractive. Maybe reaction formation, or maybe it is that I feel sorry for them? I remember reading a post somewhere that somebody was attracted to bodies because he felt sorry for them and related to them because they were 'discarded, unwanted, found by others to be repulsive" and he gained some sort of power by feeling pity for someone. What do you feel towards them?

You are very necro.

Feel nothing for dead old ladies, but young fit dead guy with open eyes - welcome anytime.

No matter how many times I've cum I can cum again if the dead guy is beautiful & fit.

 

[Nineteen]

@New Yorker

Very insightful, I have never thought about reaction formation in that way ie a whole cosmetics industry built on people's hatred of the idea of ageing. Ageing = being useless, unlovable, "ugly" and basically pushed out of the social spere of humanity. Nursing homes are a testament to how we treat our aged; very tragic.
and the reality of being left out of the human race (whether because of age, deformity, mental issues) would have meant death at one point and still represents a kind of social death. Fitting in equals survival and our minds/bodies will do anything to keep us alive, despite what we consciously 'think' we want. Hence reaction formation. A friend of mine is a big girl with a sparkling personality - the most outgoing person I know. I once praised her for her way with people and she said that she has to be twice as nice to make up for being a fat girl. Perhaps it is the same? So if a person has a mental or physical condition, they either compensate by working on their strengths (adaptive) or despise in others what they don't like about themselves (reactive). Maybe the outcome depends on someone's maturity/social intelligence? Hmm...

 

[metalmachine]

A sadistic gay necrophile then turns into the most loving partner on Earth, will never hurt a fly and is described by other people as "awesome, loving, caring dude".

Im agree. I love beauty corpses but Im very pacefull

 

[New Yorker]

Fear is an incredibly powerful emotion that can very paralizing. If you really evaluate society right now, you'll see fear is the most powerful mean of social control. People are willing to take a lot of crap because they are afraid they may lose their jobs. Certain issues and ideas are off the table because people are afraid they may be ostrocised if they bring them up (a good example is how any positive remarks toward socialism is perceived as an afront in American politicis, even though we are technically an open society).

There is nothing wrong with fear as it is a way to handle danger, but when people live in perpetual fear, then they never develop more rational and articulated positions. Being in this eternal battle of "fight or flight" makes people unable to explore other possibilities and grow s human beings.

I think most people are very primitive and simplistic because they live in fear. Think about what happened after the shooting in Connecticut. Lots of people went to buy more guns even though guns were the source of the problem in the first place. This is the problem with a society that is manipulated by fear, its population will always opt for the easy and simple way to deal with a situation even if it doesnt solve the problem on the long run.

U are from Brazil, right? (so am I by the way). I know many people in Brazil are paranoid about crime and violence. Many want the death penalty to be used in Brazil because they think it will deter crime. Nevertheless, there is no statistically significant evidence that shows that is the case. Again, these are people who havent really evolved beyond the fight and flight mechanism.

I hope that made sense.

 

[ukon]

Reaction formation in gay necrophiles . Wow what a great title. To be honest I had never heard of Reaction formation so that is why I started reading this thread and have found it very interesting indeed. I have no grounding in Psychology and have always found it a bit iffy. There are some great points and examples made by Meatpie and also a few other respondents but I am out of my depth on this subject and am neutral , I neither agree nor disagree. Though I think I now understand what Reaction formation is purported to be .
Having read all the thread a couple of times to let the information sink in I have a few observations.

A heterosexual man who is extremely hateful against gays may be seeking to counteract deep-seated and often untouched homosexual desires. This is all on a subconscious level. from Meatpie

I have encountered this sort of Guy, and the oft quoted line " the lady doth protest too much,methinks" sustitute Guy of course, comes readily to mind

A sadistic gay necrophile then turns into the most loving partner on Earth, will never hurt a fly and is described by other people as "awesome, loving, caring dude". from Meatpie

So does it follow that all “awesome, loving, caring dudes” are possibly Sadistic gay necrophiles with Reaction formation or can there be “awesome, loving, caring dudes” who are genuinely just that as well as those with Reaction formation.
Again thanks to all the participants ,hopefully there will be more replies. Subjects and discussions like this make CDG a special place for me .
Finally No I don’t think my friends would go so far as to describe me as a caring, loving dude probably an Enigma ( unknown quantity) would be more the word.

 

[Meatpie]

So does it follow that all “awesome, loving, caring dudes” are possibly Sadistic gay necrophiles with Reaction formation or can there be “awesome, loving, caring dudes” who are genuinely just that as well as those with Reaction formation.

Once again I would like to point out that reaction formation takes place in our subconscious. All humans have sadistic traits yes, in extreme situations you will be able to fight back and defend yourself, hurt others if you have to.

Raction formation kicks in only when the sadistic desires become too strong and lead to anxiety....Reaction formation is a brilliant way to get "cured" from your anxiety.

 

[Nineteen]

Reaction formation in gay necrophiles .

So does it follow that all “awesome, loving, caring dudes” are possibly Sadistic gay necrophiles with Reaction formation or can there be “awesome, loving, caring dudes” who are genuinely just that as well as those with Reaction formation.
Again thanks to all the participants ,hopefully there will be more replies. Subjects and discussions like this make CDG a special place for me .
Finally No I don’t think my friends would go so far as to describe me as a caring, loving dude probably an Enigma ( unknown quantity) would be more the word.

Hmm, there are lots of other qualities that people feel the need to compensate for, ie if they feel they are fat/ugly or not very bright or even have bad teeth! Whatever the person sees as a flaw can lead them to compensate for it in ways they can control for example how they act towards others.
And of course there are people who are generally nice and not compensating for anything. Luckily, or we would have to assume all the nice folks were secretly awful or deviant. Wouldn't that turn the world on its head! I think that how someone compensates (or doesn't) for their flaws is a mechanism of both their inborn personality and level of maturity.
Maybe a less developed person w/ necro fantasies would avoid all things death related and have an unusually strong revulsion to death?
A relative of mine will not have children in his house, not even my young cousins, says they are loud and annoying and wreck things and basically nothing positive about them. 14 yrs ago he was charged with sex abuse of a minor!

 

[Meatpie]

A relative of mine will not have children in his house, not even my young cousins, says they are loud and annoying and wreck things and basically nothing positive about them. 14 yrs ago he was charged with sex abuse of a minor!

Geez.

That's not reaction formation, he is doing it on purpose. Reaction formation is unconscious, you cannot control it.

 

[ukon]

thanks for you replies Meatpie and Nineteen

 

[Nineteen]

I think he genuinely believes he is not a pedo though...people, I think, are masters of deception , especially of themselves. Just like closeted gays who genuinely hate gay people do not necessarily know they are gay, or are very good at denying/ forgetting their tendencies when they are not directly engaged in them. Then they 'hate' the action or object/person... I think this is a way to give the mind a break from something it doesn't like. Even I have experienced this from time to time, it is bizarre to say the least. Like literally 'forgetting' - for example going into relationships w/ living men then being reminded through the experience that I am not attracted to them after all and nothing has changed. Yet keep repeating the same behaviours? Wtf? Sorry for rambling, half of this still doesn't make much sense to me and I am trying to figure it all out.

 

[PiercedChest]

When I first read Meatpies first post, I thought it was just about another of Freud's untested wild ideas (yes he had many of those). But actually the mechanism has been demonstrated later in more or less convincing ways.

Personally I got a bit of a shock when I saw Meatpies thread My Face When I Die: http://cutedeadguys.net/threads/30574-My-face-when-I-die?p=198158&highlight=#post198158 As a young boy, I was absolutely terrified by skeletons, skulls in particular:

So this frightened me no end.
Is my attraction to this site indeed associated with that old fear (actually I overcame it a long time ago already )??

 

[Meatpie]

Let's not confuse fear with anxiety...Most people fear snakes for example, fear from skulls & dead bodies is also common even among older people!

 

[PiercedChest]

Let's not confuse fear with anxiety

What's the difference? A gradual or essential one?

 

[Meatpie]

Fear may be temporary and pass when the threat is removed. Anxiety is persistent and leads to changes in the nervous system, disturbs sleep, starts to rule your emotions and leads to cognitive problems.

 

[yourtrophyhead]

For me, it's not about fear of death or corpses, it's about power & control. I felt so powerless as a kid, if there is a reaction formation, it's about that. The ultimate power is to take another's life and be able to do whatever you will with their body, which has gone from being their most important posession, to mine. And yes, I'm considered one of the nicest guys around. Spend most of my weeks helping others, so the paradox is there.