Meatpie

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Most people think homosexuality is meaningless and stupid but it has widely been observed in the animal kingdom. So there must be something in our genes that makes us prefer partners from the same sex.

Male dolphins for example have been seen rubbing genitals against each other, which sometimes leads to the males swimming belly to belly, inserting the penis in the others genital slit and sometimes anus.

Scientists believe homosexuality & bond formation benefits species in an evolutionary context.

In times of crisis or war male bonding is necessary for putting up a good fight and ensuring the defence of the weaker females and their offspring.

Do you agree or disgareee?
 

mxboots888

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Some evolutionary biologists (ie. Dawkins et al) believe it benefits their DNA by nurturing related offsprings which is quite plausible
 

PiercedChest

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Most people think homosexuality is meaningless and stupid but it has widely been observed in the animal kingdom.So there must be something in our genes that makes us prefer partners from the same sex. Scientists believe homosexuality & bond formation benefits species in an evolutionary context. In times of crisis or war male bonding is necessary for putting up a good fight and ensuring the defence of the weaker females and their offspring. Do you agree or disgareee?

It's impossible to disagree with hard facts: homosexuality occurs everywhere in the animal kingdom, so it is quite natural (indeed gay necrophilia has been observed too (in ducks, IgNobel prize 2003)).

This doesn't mean it must be something genetic, it could also depend on the circumstances in which our brains develop (hormone levels during pregnancy etc). Nobody knows.

Sadly, even scientists tend to lose themselves in empty speculations about 'evolutionary benefits', there's an enormous lot of baloney in that area around. Armchair babbling without hard evidence. You can find 'scientists' arguing that homosexuality is harmful/neutral/beneficial from an evolutionary point of view without a shred of science to support their private opinions. Dear scientists, I don't give a shit for your opinions, but am very interested in any real arguments. (Religious idiots should be banned from this debate altogether of course.)

Some evolutionary biologists (ie. Dawkins et al) believe it benefits their DNA by nurturing related offsprings which is quite plausible
Dawkins is no favorable exception. He uses arguments from insect societies (sisters helping the queen bee or ant to reproduce), but hasn't done any actual measurements or experiments in mammals with homosexual behavior as far as I know: I for one don't nurture related offspring more than my straight relatives do. "Quite plausible" just won't do it! Many a scientist has experienced "a beautiful theory, spoiled by one ugly little fact".

My own experience is that homosexuality and heterosexuality are not like a switch that has two positions, and you're either 100% straight or 100% gay, it's more like a slider that can sit anywhere between these extremes. I'd rate myself as 70% gay, 30% straight, and have had very satisfying sex with both men and women. But men turn me on definitely much stronger than women.

It would be interesting to do research to determine whether male bonding in times of war has anything to do with homosexuality. I very much doubt that, because if true it doesn't carry over to other animal species with homosexual behavior. I don't know of any reliable facts about actual homosexual acts between soldiers in times of war (wouldn't be surprised if that was less than in times of peace). Male bonding can be very strong between straight men too.

So far nobody can 'explain' homosexuality, but damn all the hypocrites, narrowminded prudes and downright criminal morons that try to suppress, cure or kill gay people!
 
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Trex

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Some evolutionary biologists (ie. Dawkins et al) believe it benefits their DNA by nurturing related offsprings which is quite plausible

I've read Dawkins myself and he's a very intelligent guy. I'm inclined to agree, the nurturing of related offspring explains the survival value of homosexuality and why it has never been bred out of animals such as ourselves via the natural selection process.
 

Atlavocat

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There is no doubt that homosexuality is genetic. It has a genetic link. Homosexuality runs in families. There are several theories as to why it has survived on an evolutionary basis. Studies in Italy have shown that women with Gay brothers have more children (the old "gay uncle" theory might be true). Other studies show that the genes that make a woman a particularly fecund and attractive mate may make her male children more likely to be homosexual. And type "A" men are more likely to have daughters who are Lesbians. I strongly recommend giving one of Dr. Simony LeVay's books a review.
 

Andrew1999

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One question for Atlavocat: PL offer us a small amount of info on Dr. LeVay & why he would be worth a look. One ? to MX & others: PL, could you all give a few short reasons to encourage us to check out Dawkins? Very interesting discussion started here. Thanks for telling us of sources to help in self exploration. One can't help but be pleased & impressed w/ the depth & thought you all offer.
 
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