Meatpie

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The physics world is abuzz after news that a group of European physicists at CERN have clocked a burst of subatomic particles known as neutrinos breaking the cosmic speed limit — the speed of light — that was set by Albert Einstein in 1905.

Do you think this is possible?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/science/23speed.html
 
In physics there's only one rule: if your experiment shows your theory is wrong, your theory's dead (many CDTs (Cute Dead Theories) in the physics graveyard!). In this case of course, double-triple-quadruple checks are needed, but if the measurements hold up: goodbye Einstein.

Would be VERY exciting if it turns out to be true (only intellectually, not sexually, I'm afraid)!
In principle there's no violation of relativity theory if particles traveling with a speed grater than light exist (until now they're hypothetical, and called tachions), but whether neutrinos actually are tachions??

If Einstein was wrong after all, then you could actually enjoy sex AFTER your own death. I'm all for CERN!!
 
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What is even more disturbing is that several Italian scientists also announced the same results back in 2007 but no one paid any attention. Now because it's coming from CERN it made international headlines although many physicists vehemently refute CERN's findings. What a mess.

I'll stick with Einsten for now, the idea that neutrions can be faster is profoundly disturbing to me.
 
:thinking: Whether or not it is possible, I think that IS the beauty of Science. Perhaps Einstein was correct to a certain approximation but as evidence and experimentation can prove, disprove or modify proof, scientists gladly accept and change their knowledge of reality.
 
There is yet not enough corroboration to dismiss Einstein's brilliant theory of E = MC2. Neutrinos are an exception and very fickle and hard to always replicate.

No reasonable physicist will abandon Einstein, and quite frankly, from my study and research on this matter Einstein's Theory of Relativity will always be a foundation of the workings of The Universe.
 
Italians, CERN, whoever, several independent high-quality measurements (accuracy, validity) will have to show the same results before the scientific community will accept these outcomes. Even if that happens, the consequences are far from clear now. A footnote added to Relativity? A worldview overthrown?

I think it's thrilling to experience a little bit what Galileo's contemporaries must have felt when he insisted that the Earth revolves around the sun and is NOT the center of the universe (now THAT was a worldview overthrown!).

Still, these findings will probably make no difference at all to our daily lives, so I don't find them disturbing, but rather refreshing. Adjusting your mental model of how the world works is like growing up a little, and since physics is far from finished, this won't be the last time we'll have to do that. Even for Galileo's contemporaries nothing changed in their daily lives!
 
I want my FTL drives and TARDIS now!!!

"Helmsman, set a course for Alpha Centauri, warp factor V, make it so!"
 
Einstein developed his theory or Relativity assuming only one Force is at play at the astronomic scale, that is, Gravity. Gravity, technically speaking, is not a Fundamental Force like the Electromagnetism, Weak and Strong nuclear forces, because no particle (hypothetical gravitons) has been found, associated with Gravity, yet. Furthermore, as Einstein himself found, Gravity is actually an effect of the presence of matter in a location of space, which warps the space-time continuum, causing objects to accelerate toward each others, depending on their distinct mass and the distance that separates them. We still know very little about Gravity and the space-time continuum.

Since Einstein, it was found there are others Forces at play in the universe. The expansion is believed to be accelerating, due to a "dark energy" which is yet to be observed but it has to be there to explain what is actually observed. This is a second force that Einstein was not aware of. However, the red shift used to measure the speed of expansion, has recently started to be questioned.

Gigantic flow of electrons between galaxies and nearby cosmic clouds, has been observed. Electromagnetism may be at play at the astronomical scale, as well.

Recently, it has been observed that a small cosmic cloud orbiting a galaxy is actually showing a red shift that is very different than the galaxy it is orbiting around. Others red shift anomalies are also found elsewhere in the universe. Something else than the speed of expansion is at play to explain the spectrum shift. The Big Bang theory was elaborated solely from the observation of the red shift. If the universe is expanding, if we playback the movie in reverse, then somewhere in the past, it was very very dense and hot, and expanded rapidly. But if the red shift that we observe is not the result of the speed at which galaxies are flying away from us or if there is also another yet to be understood phenomenon that affects the light spectrum that reaches our instruments, then, the universe may be expanding but at a very different rate than believed, there may or may not be an acceleration of that expansion, or even, the universe may not be expanding at all. If so, then, hasta la vista, Big Bang. Astronomers would have to find other explanations for the observed background noise that is believed to be the remains of the gigantic explosion that was the Big Bang.

A theoretical black matter that is believed to be the major constituent of the universe, is still not observed yet. The giant CERN particle accelerator has recently reached energy levels which were supposed to give evidences of the existence of the black matter. But none has been observed yet. Also, still no Higgs boson found yet. Scientists are starting to fear that their beloved Standard Model will have to be remade. Furthermore, recently, other scientists and astronomers have made observations that seems to refute the very existence of the black matter.

In quantum mechanics, it has been observed that information travels between intricated particles, at a speed that far exceed the speed of light. Although this is not a violation of Einstein's theory of Relativity because information does not have any mass, it is still very intriguing plus it is a possible method of communication at the astronomic scale.


In conclusion, I'd say there is still a lot we don't know about the universe and the way it works. Though, scientists and astronomers are making astonishing observations and new discoveries every once in a while and I am confident that one day, we'll have a far better understanding of what's happening up there. I find that subject extremely fascinating.

Daniel
 
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Re post #2, you're wrong PC, it would be sexually exciting if matter can travel faster than light (I know, I get sexually excited at everything!) but just imagine being able to blast spunk at faster than the speed of light instead of just breaking the sound barrier as we do now!
 
In conclusion, I'd say there is still a lot we don't know about the universe and the way it works. Though, scientists and astronomers are making astonishing observations and new discoveries every once in a while and I am confident that one day, we'll have a far better understanding of what's happening up there. I find that subject extremely fascinating.

Daniel

I agree, physics is a mess at the moment. All eyes are on CERN now, they are working hard, several teams are investigating different phenomena yet no one has yet come up with a real "discovery".
 
just imagine being able to blast spunk at faster than the speed of light instead of just breaking the sound barrier as we do now!

I do that all the time. I cum faster than my own shadow routinely.
 
it's disturbing because the one of the most fundamental assumptions of science — that the rules of physics are the same for all observers — would be invalidated. If true it makes time travel into the past possible.
 
You can 'sort of' travel to the past according to string theory. The problem is that once you have done so, its no longer your past. If you move so much as an atom, you have changed the events leading to the future from which you came. One theory of time and presence is that all possible outcomes of any taken action, no matter how slight, exist at the same time. They are like the down of a thistle with each slight variance seeding a new direction.

So, what it gets down to is that, once you travel to the past, the odds of you returning to the presence from which you came are extremely slim. There are an infinite number variations. Even if you were able to find or stay connected to your present, nothing you did when you went to the past would change it. When you returned, it would as if you never left.

I knew a long time ago that some things can travel faster that the speed of light. When I was young, if I caused some kind disturbance, my mother would already know about it before I could telephone her and phone signals travel near the speed of light. :)
 
What kind of disturbance did you cause? Were you naughty as a kid?
 
Quantum mechanics is indeed fascinating, it is also humbling to realize we have a long way to go to fully understand things. Sometimes some mystery is good though, once we know everything what else is there?
 
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