Political suicide

[lindier]

Today the British Labour Party, the official opposition, elected Jeremy Corbyn as its leader. Corbyn is very much to the left of his party and his election can be seen as the party retreating to its comfort zone and seeking to remove the last vestiges of Blairism and new labour. Further he is a serial rebel who has a record of voting against his party whip which may make it difficult for him to require others to toe his line.
I guess people the people celebrating loudest are Cameron and his Tories. Corbyn has extreme policies which may well alienate many voters. Equally the good news it may hasten the revival of the liberal democrats now that Clegg has resigned and they have a more centralist leader in Tim Farron.
But the interesting point is whether the American democrats will follow suit and select Alan sanders are their Presidential candidate. And if they do can a left winger be elected president.
I suspect the next months are going to be interesting.

 

[lindier]

Whoops. I'm not sure who Alan Sanders is but he may be mighty offended . I should of course have referred to Bernie Sanders. But it down to British lack of knowledge of any politics other than our own parochial version.
Sorry

 

[demon007]

I find it really interesting and I dont like Corbyn at all..

I am sure everyone agreed with what Tony Blair said and his spotless record behind him until he actually became prime minister and took us into 2 wars! One of which illegal and his own members were fiddling with taxpayers money passing it off as expenses.. Now the left wing will play the "red tories" card which I just think is a cop out. They can't fathom a left wing party can steal and do everything they accuse the right of "wanting" to do so they pretending Labour is the red tory party to suit themselves.

Corbyn has a record that if we think of all the things UKIP councillors have said and they have been ousted immediately. It seems a common trend for LABOUR to protect racists and facists like it did with Diane Abbott who is easily referenced to racist tweets against white working families. Corbyn has his own legacy bad news behind him.. The one that really gets me is an easily referenced video of him talking to a now banned hate preacher whom he calls "an honourary citizen"..#

Futhermore he has likened Hamas to his friends when I personallly have this view that they are just as guilty in terms of causing the deaths of Palestinians.. Something that the left wing cannot seem to understand is that whatever happens in that conflict, who ALWAYS wins? That's right HAMAS! - If Hamas kills Jews Hamas is praised, if Israel retaliates it is to blame.. If a child dies in the conflict the world supports Hamas and they know this.. Corbyn seems to have picked a side when I personally would hope that a real leader wouldn't pick sides like these biased news channels have done in the past. I completely believe Hamas kills children and blames Israel because they know the west will believe it as the left wing are gullible and easily led..

Recently Corbyn has stated he wanted to ally himself with Russia or something along those lines.. For the first time he has said something worthwhile as this propaganda from British media regarding Ukraine's illegal ousting of their government then deployment of troops to attack the people of dontesk was a disgrace and Russia had every right to protect its own borders.

I can only hope this is political suicide.. And I hope he destroys the whole party with him... Anyone can talk a good game. His past I hope it blows up in his face and many of their supporters. Seems they haven't had enough of Labour lies and are asking for more. Now they just have to make the rest of the country... THE MAJORITY believe them.

 

[lindier]

Hi mate
First I don't think we are ever going to agree on what is happening in eastern Ukraine. Okay I am relying on the British press and the BBC but I think that the latter at the least is relatively impartial and honest and they showed to my satisfaction that yankovich headed a kleptomaniac administration. Given that any subsequent election was likely to be rigged I can understand why the relatively liberal western Ukraine felt the need to demonstrate against him. Of course that did not excuse his cowardice in running away to Russia rather than defending himself .but that was his choice. And when he did that then it was necessary to elect a government to fill the vacuum. Somehow I guess that you may not accept my interpretation of the facts.
Again I can see why Putin would prefer a compliant state on his borders but that is no excuse for, in effect, occupying part of its territory. And like it or not Ukraine was a sovereign state with clearly defined boundaries.
I find it harder to criticise him over Crimea although legally that is also an annexation but he has at least the excuse that Khrushchev should never have ceded it in the first place and that it was an integral,part of Russia before that

 

[lindier]

On the issue of Israel I tend to agree with you. Snag is Israel is a secular state with a democratically elected government subject to an independent judiciary. And she is fighting to survive with enemies who want to destroy her and her people. But that doesn't influence Corbyn and his acolytes who believe in the Hamas case however full of holes it may be. One reason why I respected Blair and even brown who always proved a good and honest friend to israel.
I also believe that Blair did a lot of good and had it not been for Iraq we would have praised him as one of the best leaders of the twentieth and twenty first centuries. He gave us civil partnerships and the independence of the Bank of England amongst other things. Pity he fell under the malign influence of bush.
I don't like Diane Abbott . I guess the one good thing about corbyn's election is it might give the moderates in the party the opportunity to regroup, maybe even to create a genuinely social Democratic Party as nearly happened in the eighties with David Owen and Roy Jenkins.
I await your response. Great fun to debate.

 

[demon007]

I totally agree with Blair but I think Iraq was illegal whereas interventions after haven't been so regardless of how good he was he needs to be held accountable in the highest court along with George W Bush.

I have the greatest of admiration for Israel as a nation although I am not Jewish or Israeli I view it as a demoracy and one of the first to accept homosexuality. It holds within itself 1 million Arabs who live within it peacefully and it's companies like Sodastream who employ mostly Arab workforces to give something more to those people as if Gaza wasn't enough when the countries surrounding it are nothing more than cesspits for terrorism, murder and creul laws that execute women for themselves being raped and more. One cool fact and interesting one at that is that there are no Jews living in Muslim countries including Gaza peacefully although A 7 figure number in Israel that are Muslim... It infuriates me to no end to see people condemn Israel MORE than they do ISIS.

 

[lindier]

It appears that the intervention in Iraq was illegal. And whilst the Kurds have certainly benefitted from the removal of Saddam Hussein I guess the law of unintended consequences has struck again with the rise of the Isis extremists and the murder of many who hold different beliefs from those monsters.
However I am always a little concerned about attempts to hold leaders criminally responsible for what happened under their watch particularly when their decisions however wrong were endorse by a democratically elected parliament. I know it probably started with Nuremberg and the trial of the genocide nazis, and neither I nor anyone else can properly criticise Churchill for setting that up, but again the law of unintended consequences has intervened and every leader from Blair and bush to Putin and Netanyahu has faced calls for international trial at The Hague.
As for Israel I admire what they have done and like you find it surprising that they are always portrayed as the devil whereas Assad and his ilk are heroes. Had the Arab world wished it could have settled the Palestinians in the fifties, after all they left Israel so as not to interfere with the anticipated massacre of the Jews had the Arabs won, and those who stayed were integrated into the state with full democratic rights. I suspect it is easier to idolise Saudi and the Arab states rather than the so called despised Jews who had been persecute in Europe for centuries.

 

[KiltedSoldier]

Turns out Corbyn had an affair with Diane Abbott - late 70s - yuk !
As a SNP supporter I have to see how Corbyns election affects us

 

[MassacreNight]

Seems like Tsiprias.

Lot of bluster but little clue on how to get any of it done.

 

[lindier]

Yes but at least in Greece you have an alternative. We are stuck with Cameron and the Tories. Yuck !!

 

[lindier]

It s reported that Donald Trump has suggested banning all Muslims from entering the USA. What a fruitcake! Apart from punishing the majority for the sins of the occasional murderer doesn't it conflict with the separation of the religious and the secular. After all no one has their religion stamped on their face. So is he talking about banning the brown skinned nether they are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or Christian. And how does he intend to determine a person's religion.
What with Corbyn in U.K. and Trump in USA is this the time of the lunatics in politics. And, referring to another thread where the u.k. Is accused of being too tolerant better that than Trump. And what is even more worrying is the number of people seem to agree with him.

 

[jon_b]

........ And what is even more worrying is the number of people seem to agree with him.

History indicates that extreme situations seem to promote people with extreme ideas - who gather support from sections of the community undergoing the hardships of the times - because they cannot see viable alternative solutions comming from anyone else.