The Purge

[New Yorker]

I don't know if you guys saw it but there is a new horror movie coming out this week with a very intriguing story.

Basically the story takes place in 2022 and the US has resurged as a prosperous nation with 1% unemployment and low crime rate.

There is a catch though. All this prosperity is possible because once every year for 12 hours all crimes are legal (even murder) and all emergency services are suspended.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0LLaybEuzA

The idea behind the movie is that during this purge people can vent their negative emotions so that they are peaceful and amicable individuals during the rest of the year.

The question I would like to raise is: Do you think laws are the main force that prevents the majority of people from turning into mass killers or that in a hypothetical purge the majority of people would still refrain from killing other people just because it is MORALLY wrong?

Another question is: Do you think the purge would work? Would decriminalizing all crimes for a few hours have this enormous social impact?

 

[yalada]

It seems like a good premise for a movie. Maybe I am an optimist but I believe that most people implicitly know the difference between right and wrong and would not do harm even if given a free pass. It seems instead to me that the people who would do horrible things to others would in fact be the same ones who would do it anyhow and might perhaps do worse because of the lack of repercussion.

Would it have the kind of effect that the movie proposes? I doubt it, in fact I think the fear of the Purge would perhaps lead to destabilization. People would spend all year creating fortresses, they would start to distrust everyone including their neighbours and friends and begin to become paranoid xenophobes. Even if the law did not punish those who did the crimes those "ordinary" folks who commit heinous acts would never be treated the same. Can you imagine if your coworker raped and killed another coworker? Or murdered their ex? How could you live harmoniously for the 364 days with them knowing this?

Question I would propose is: Lets say the Purge did exist. What crime, if any, would you commit?

 

[New Yorker]

I agree with everything you said Yalada. I think most of us know what is right and wrong. However, that perception of right and wrong becomes flaky in times of social and economic unrest. You can see how people have adhered to extreme ideologies in the US and Europe due to the serious economic and social problems of our day. The point I am trying to make is that when people feel oppressed or hopeless they start dismissing ideals that we consider "civilized".

I don't think I'd able to commit a crime even if that crime was legal. I cant bring myself to deliberately cause someone unnecessary pain just to satisfy my sick pleasures. However, if a good locking killer attacked me and I were able to get the upper hand I would likely strangle him to death. But, even then O wouldn't be able to torture him.

WOW, this is a very dark conversation...

 

[Meatpie]

Oh dudes please.

Just look at what's happening in Syria, they can't keep up with all the corpses violence breeds more violence release your inner animal.

 

[New Yorker]

Oh meatpie, ever the pessimist.

I agree we all have the potential to become cruel killers. However, I think one's predisposition to violence is both genetic or maybe a better word is instinctive and also social.

I don't want you to think I believe we from the West rule and are perfect, but the main pillars of Western society is the idea of equality, justice and acceptance of diversity. Not all of us might be in tune with those ideals, but I think they are reflected in the way we do things. I think these values help people create an appreciation and respect for human life. Every Western European country has prohibited the death penalty and even in the US death penalty is losing its appeal. Also, we in the West live in a relatively stable and safe society. You don't see war or acts of gruesome violence constantly happening where we live.

Theocratic and authoritarian societies like Syria however are not able to teach these values. I read this morning an article about the Makkah Royal Clock Tower Hotel which is the second tallest building in the world in Mecca that bans guests that are not Muslim. If you live in a society like that you will become a person unable to appreciate the value of human life and as a result you will be more prompt to be violent since there are not moral values to hold you back.

The point that I am trying to make is that those of us who adhere to extreme ideologies that diminish the value of human being who do not think like them will become individuals driven by hatred and by the most primitive instincts we humans can display.

 

[Meatpie]

Also, we in the West live in a relatively stable and safe society. You don't see war or acts of gruesome violence constantly happening where we live.

Where you live saw one of the worst atrocities against civilian population in human history.



By "Western Society" I see you mean the USA.

I am sorry but you are neither safe nor stable especially after the Boston terrorist attack two months ago and the mass school/university shootings sorry but no other nation has so many. The FBI made fools of themselves with the murder of Todashev this is still international news. Your neighbour could be a potential terrorist, you can never be sure, the FBI aren't sure! LoL

Also I am sad to say but US natural disasters are unlike any other on Earth, memory of hurricane Sandy is still fresh I suppose just image what even a small tsunami in the Atlantic can do to otherwise beautiful NYC.

And then there is 9/11. People were dropping from WTC with supersonic speed like ragdolls, with human minced meat all over WTC.

You said the USA is stable? Politically or what? In what respect?

Do you think the current economy is stable or volatile?

 

[New Yorker]

I don't mean JUST the USA. I think I would consider the USA, Canada, Western Europe and Oceania as countries that belong to western society.


When I spoke about safety and stability I was specifically referring to violence. I am not talking about politics or economics or even environmental sustainability. I am ONLY talking about acts of extreme violence like murder, rape, arson, etc.

Countries that I would consider not safe: Brazil with one of the highest homicide rates in the world. Brazil is so violent that people want to legalize the death penalty because they think it will deter crime (consider that the far less violent countries in Europe see the death penalty as barbaric partially because crime is not tearing their societies apart). People in Brazil do not think the government and society as a whole can protect them from criminals. Some go as far as to say there is a undeclared civil war in Brazil. Mexico and the constant beheadings is also a very unsafe country where the government is unable to deal with the rising violence. People in countries like these feel pressured and cornered and simply do not have the luxury of contemplating higher ideals. In the West we are not exposed as much to extreme violence like gruesome murders. I am not saying the West is free of violence, but it's not as a detrimental social issue as it is in other countries.

People who are in a position where they are constantly thinking about danger and that they are not safe tend to lean more on the "fight or flight" thinking of the brain rather than lean more on the logical part of the brain.

 

[Meatpie]

I don't mean JUST the USA. I think I would consider the USA, Canada, Western Europe and Oceania as countries that belong to western society.

What about countries in Southeast Europe like Bulgaria & Greece?

Both countries were established nations long before the USA?

Did you know that the concept of the "Western part" of the earth has its roots in Greco-Roman civilization of Southern Europe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world



I agree with the rest though, BR definately not safe. Their homicide rate is obviously sky high also let's not forget all the recent disco and night club fires, there were over 300 corpses in one incident.

Traffic safety is also a big problem, you know what I mean.

 

[New Yorker]

I feel like you are looking for an operational definition of "Western society". I am not that interested in geography but rather on ideological basis of Western countries. Western countries tend to be democratic, have a high degree of liberty and the idea of diversity is accepted by a majority of the population and they also have high income.

Greece is considered part of the geographical definition of "Western Europe" but I think Bulgaria is not because it used to be part of the Soviet Union. I guess Greece is a good example of what happens when people feel their country has become unstable. I don't feel comfortable about talking about Bulgaria cuz I know very little about it.

 

[Meatpie]

That was among the most retarded posts I've read so far on this forum, Bulgaria was never part of the Soviet Union.

And the part about the high income just tops it all.

There are so many beggers in New York City, so many niggers look around...though I suspect you live in an affulent neighbourhood.

What about the occupy movement in Zuccotti Park, income inequality in the USA is outrageous.

 

[New Yorker]

I really thought Bulgaria was part of the Soviet Union. I must've gotten it confused with another country, My mistake.


You don't need to lecture me on income inequality. I know the US ranks one of the most unequal countries in the Americas and I also know income inequality is on the rise even in countries that use the Nordic model.

For some reason you are trying to portray me as someone who generalizes everything. I never said the West is perfect and I am very aware of its social and economic problems. I don't know if you have noticed but the world is not black and white.

Another thing, before trying to paint me as an out of touch plutocrat I think you should really find a different word other than "nigger"
when referring to black people as you have done in some of your posts. You never know, people might get the impression you are a racist.

And don't bother trying to reduce my reputation. U can go ahead and delete my profile.

Again, I apologize for the Bulgaria comment. I should have checked it before writing the comment.

 

[Meatpie]

We are just having a discussion why do you have to take it so personal...I won't delete your profile and I truly hope you stay a member.

I strongly dislike your narrow-minded opinion that's why I gave you bad reputation. Others may like your views and give you green this is part of forum life.

it amazes me that you live in one of the most modern cities in the world yet your views are so simplistic.

BTW do you have niggers in your neighbourhood?

 

[Sham3]

personally, I think that the story's premise is just an excuse for a thriller movie. Let alone ignore the fact that some people would commit crimes on other days than this one night, but why would it lead to low employment? And no, the fact that other people watch fantasy and sci fi movies does not make it okay!

 

[New Yorker]

I guess the main premise here is that if people were able tu purge their natural aggressive instincts, they would become industrious and less prompt to cause problems in society. To a certain degree there is some validity to this. People who are under stress and are forced to bottle up their emotions become more egocentric and in many time antisocial. There is a social contract between society and the individual and when the individual feels that society is not keeping its end of the bargain then he/she becomes frustrated. When a huge chunk of people feel that way then society begins to implode.

I guess one way to explain the low unemployment is that if people are free of their resentment they can then think more clearly and society can work more properly. As a society we have many problems but most people are so entangled with their own bitterness that they cant really see the bigger picture.

 

[KiltedSoldier]

I agree with the poster who said the Purge would be destabilising - you would spend all year preparing a bunker / fortress - and stock up on weapons You could sell an armed security service to protect others who can pay - but society already does this - police and the Army take in the dirty violent jobs others don't do

 

[ukon]

It seems like a good premise for a movie. Maybe I am an optimist but I believe that most people implicitly know the difference between right and wrong and would not do harm even if given a free pass. It seems instead to me that the people who would do horrible things to others would in fact be the same ones who would do it anyhow and might perhaps do worse because of the lack of repercussion.

Would it have the kind of effect that the movie proposes? I doubt it, in fact I think the fear of the Purge would perhaps lead to destabilization. People would spend all year creating fortresses, they would start to distrust everyone including their neighbours and friends and begin to become paranoid xenophobes. Even if the law did not punish those who did the crimes those "ordinary" folks who commit heinous acts would never be treated the same. Can you imagine if your coworker raped and killed another coworker? Or murdered their ex? How could you live harmoniously for the 364 days with them knowing this?

Question I would propose is: Lets say the Purge did exist. What crime, if any, would you commit?

I agree

 

[Art Of War]

We are just having a discussion why do you have to take it so personal...I won't delete your profile and I truly hope you stay a member.

I strongly dislike your narrow-minded opinion that's why I gave you bad reputation. Others may like your views and give you green this is part of forum life.

it amazes me that you live in one of the most modern cities in the world yet your views are so simplistic.

BTW do you have niggers in your neighbourhood?

BRAVO Meat Pie BRAVO!!!!