Gay Death

Kael said:

People have used atheism as an excuse to kill religious people. I would like to point out how communism actively killed religious people as they opposed an atheist state.

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Please give an example how atheism is used as an excuse to kill religious people? The very definition of atheism is just a lack of belief in a supernatural dictator. Communism does not equate to atheism by the way, if that's what you are implying. You might say it is a State dogma that perhaps might look good on paper but does not work in practical terms. I also disagree that religion does more good than evil. Look at the vatican at how they have been shielded from the law on their despicable handling of the pedophile priests. And look at how the bishops in Africa are preaching that condoms are a ploy by the West to infect the whole region by manufacturing microscopic holes in them. And look at the whole Middle East with their sectarian conflicts and suppression of freedoms based on their immoral holy book. And how can one be truly "good" if the only reason you are good is the threat of eternal damnation and torture? If that is the only reason that some religious folks claim that keep them from not raping and killing people, by all means I want them to continue believing in their god!!! And without religious dogma, there isn't really a reason for vilifying gay people, except maybe for the "ick" factor just as how some of us feel about straight sex.

The reason religion have killed specifically is that religion is a political view whereas atheism is not. Atheism is the disbelief of a God whilst religion is both a belief and a way of living and guidelines.

Communism does not equate to atheism by the way

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yes actually it does. The top communist leaders said that religion was a way to control the masses which diverted them off of the true path of communism. It was "Opium for the masses". Therefore religion was to be abolished. Only in Mongolia over 30k were killed due to a hatred towards communism. And if you hate religion then you could just as well hate politics. Politics have killed more than religion and still people follow it. Strange right? It's as if it's important since it's a belief. A belief in communism, in capitalism, in socialism. Both politics and religion have their leaders, the bad, the good, hatred, love and a "solution" to everything.

there isn't really a reason for vilifying gay people

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that's true and that's why protestant Christianity doesn't vilify it. In Norway the state religion (yes we got a state religion and still we're more liberal than the US) is protestant Christianity and we have gay priests and even gay bishops. It's also strange how Asia don't have a truly dominant religion with a God or gods, especially in China, and still people in China is oppressed and their freedom is limited. That's politics at works. And still we don't ban politics.

Saying that communism equates to atheism doesn't make it so. Please provide some citations. Of course, I suppose you can redefine atheism as communism if you want, but ask an atheist Capitalist, atheist Republican (albeit not many of those around as they belong almost exclusively to the christian cults), atheist Democrat, atheist Socialist, atheist Anarchist, atheist Post-Modernist, etc etc. and they will all disagree with you.

The reason why some protestants don't vilify gay people is they redefine interpretations of their immoral book to suit their particular sect and to promote it's meme. Picking and choosing has given us (the last estimate I've heard) about 35,000 different versions of christianity. As soon as you redefine some other unique interpretation of the bible, congratulations, you have another sect/cult.

If we ban politics I guess all of us would be anarchists and live like hermits. Yes, I hate politics, but it is a necessary evil. What a silly suggestion. China's "religion" isn't atheism (again, just a lack of belief in a god), it's State dogma! They just replace the bible with their own tenets of how to be good citizens and to praise their dictator. Religions are their competitors so they ban them. We have gay priests and bishops in the US as well. I think they are doing disservice to themselves by promoting the religion engine that I suspect will never evolve to a point where they unanimously reject vilification of gay people. Why would gay people ever support something that has marginalized them all their lives is beyond me.

well, well well - a hissy fight! put THIS in your pipe and smoke it - ANYONE that is 'religious' is simply very weak in mind and allows themselves to be led by others. they, along with the majority of humans, havent' a high enough IQ that allows one to think and analyze for himself facts and come up with a logical solution to ANY problem! Just as there is oppopsits is EVERYYTHING in nature, homosexuality exists! PERIOD! Those that don't accept it for whatever the hell personal reason, are quite simply, for lack of a better word.........STUPID!

BY THE WAY

by the way, i would have added a whole lot fucking more to clarify everything, but it seems when i take too long on here, i get logged off for some reason.

Speaking of homosexuality existing in nature.... I have this book -

mxboots888 said:

Saying that communism equates to atheism doesn't make it so. Please provide some citations. Of course, I suppose you can redefine atheism as communism if you want, but ask an atheist Capitalist, atheist Republican (albeit not many of those around as they belong almost exclusively to the christian cults), atheist Democrat, atheist Socialist, atheist Anarchist, atheist Post-Modernist, etc etc. and they will all disagree with you.

The reason why some protestants don't vilify gay people is they redefine interpretations of their immoral book to suit their particular sect and to promote it's meme. Picking and choosing has given us (the last estimate I've heard) about 35,000 different versions of christianity. As soon as you redefine some other unique interpretation of the bible, congratulations, you have another sect/cult.

If we ban politics I guess all of us would be anarchists and live like hermits. Yes, I hate politics, but it is a necessary evil. What a silly suggestion. China's "religion" isn't atheism (again, just a lack of belief in a god), it's State dogma! They just replace the bible with their own tenets of how to be good citizens and to praise their dictator. Religions are their competitors so they ban them. We have gay priests and bishops in the US as well. I think they are doing disservice to themselves by promoting the religion engine that I suspect will never evolve to a point where they unanimously reject vilification of gay people. Why would gay people ever support something that has marginalized them all their lives is beyond me.

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Why would gay people support religion? Because religion isn't anymore evil than you make it. There are no place in the Bible where it rejects homosexuality. Religion isn't evil, but it could easily become a tool for such a use. Every ideology either it is religious or political could easily become a tool for violence and power. The fact that the Bible also is written by humans is why there are so many different versions of Christianity. It's the belief in the trinity that makes a religion Christian. No more is needed, that is all required to become christian. And there's not something as "just a lack of belief in a god", remove the "just" part because believing everything is chance can be just as ignorant as believing in a God and being atheist is a mindset. it's a way of thinking, you believe something even though you can't disapprove the opposite or prove your own view, all you can do is preach it. A religion doesn't need a God to be called such either, to be a religion it just have to be something spiritual, a belief in more than just that which you can feel and grasp.

mxboots888 said:

Speaking of homosexuality existing in nature.... I have this book -

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Haha, I picture the bird trying to say something like: "Bitch, please"

feettartar said:

well, well well - a hissy fight! put THIS in your pipe and smoke it - ANYONE that is 'religious' is simply very weak in mind and allows themselves to be led by others. they, along with the majority of humans, havent' a high enough IQ that allows one to think and analyze for himself facts and come up with a logical solution to ANY problem! Just as there is oppopsits is EVERYYTHING in nature, homosexuality exists! PERIOD! Those that don't accept it for whatever the hell personal reason, are quite simply, for lack of a better word.........STUPID!

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ANYONE that is 'religious' is simply very weak in mind and allows themselves to be led by others.

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You have met a lot of religious people and found them all weak-minded? Being religious is simply the ability the believe. When someone can't comprehend that, fathom how someone can think like that, understand why someone would do that. The inability to believe doesn't make someone stronger, it doesn't make them more intelligent. Neither does it make them weaker, ignorant or stupid. It simply makes them different. If you hate religious people because of what they believe in, then you hate someone for their view of life, their view of existence. That on the other hand makes you less than those who can understand why someone would be different and then accept it.

Kael said:

Why would gay people support religion? Because religion isn't anymore evil than you make it. There are no place in the Bible where it rejects homosexuality. Religion isn't evil, but it could easily become a tool for such a use. Every ideology either it is religious or political could easily become a tool for violence and power. The fact that the Bible also is written by humans is why there are so many different versions of Christianity. It's the belief in the trinity that makes a religion Christian. No more is needed, that is all required to become christian. And there's not something as "just a lack of belief in a god", remove the "just" part because believing everything is chance can be just as ignorant as believing in a God and being atheist is a mindset. it's a way of thinking, you believe something even though you can't disapprove the opposite or prove your own view, all you can do is preach it. A religion doesn't need a God to be called such either, to be a religion it just have to be something spiritual, a belief in more than just that which you can feel and grasp.

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So you claim religion isn't more evil than you make it? Well you seem like you obviously haven't read the bible (for instance). Both the OT and NT reject homosexuality. Perhaps you have a Norwegian version that has removed the bad bits. This is something I've compiled a while back. I'm sure people who want to believe can justify away these verses in some way to fit their worldview, but if there truly was some omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, it would not have made its WORD so ambiguous to spawn a francise of theologians to explain things to lay people. It would have made it absolutely clear what its meanings were and there would only be one world religion.

OLD TESTAMENT:

You must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for when you eat it you will surely die (genesis 2:15-17 NIV) (I guess god didn't want us to know good from evil....)

I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth - men and animals and creatures that move along the ground and birds of the air - for I am grieved that I have made them (genesis 6:7) (Such a vengeful god, isn't "he"? Perhaps he just changed his mind on second thoughts…)

First 4 commandments are simply a reminder of who's boss and depict a god that suffers the human emotion of petty jealousy, namely of other gods (1. you shall have no other gods before me, 2. you shall not make for yourself an idol, bow down or worship them for I the lord your god am a jealous god... 3 you shall not misuse the name of the lord your god, 4. remember the Sabbath day). Remember if "anyone doing work on the Sabbath shall be cut off spiritually from his people and therefore, anyone violating it shall be put to death (exodus 31:12-17)
*no mention of rape, child abuse, racism, slavery, no condemnation of genocide because that comes later when god inspires the whole wiping out of cities and civilizations*

God said, "if a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to free as manservants do. If she does not please her master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed" (exodus 21:7-8)

God hates homosexuals - Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable (Lev 18:22)

God's preoccupation with sex:

Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your father's wife, sister, son's daughter, father's sister, mother's sister, aunt, daughter-in-law, brother's wife, mother and her daughter, brother's wife, wife's sister whilst your sister is alive, your neighbour's wife, an animal. If a man, or woman has sexual relations with an animal, the man, or woman must be put to death and you must kill the animal (isn't the animal the innocent victim?) Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations with her during her monthly period. (Lev 18) Clearly these are all written from the man's perspective.

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father, or his mother and his blood will be on his own head. (Lev 20:9)

Penalty for a blasphemer is stoning (Lev 24:13-14)

An eye for an eye (Lev 24:19-20) (what happened to forgiveness?)

You can buy your slaves from nations around you and you can will them to your children as inherited property (Lev 25:44-46) (the Puritans certainly took advantage of this)

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me" Emo Philips (American entertainer and comedian) Seems to me a lot of criminals in prison subscribe to this mentality after being "born again" while incarcerated.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel (Deut 17:12)

Some whacky laws: "If you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. Bring her into your home and make her shave her head, trim her nails, and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured (Deut 21:11-13) (not much for romance, is there?)
A man must not wear a woman's clothing, nor vice versa. (I guess no more drag shows...)

If a man has 2 wives and he loves one but not the other and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love (Deut 21:15-16) (doesn't this contradict god's problem with polygamy before?)

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you (Deut 21:18-21)

If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity" then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate (Deut 22:13-15) So if you marry a "dud" you can just accuse her for being not a virgin and get a "get of of jail card". The onus is put on the parents to provide evidence that their daughter is truly a virgin. If they can prove that, the husband is only forced to pay a fine of five shekels of silver, but if they can't prove it, "she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of the town shall stone her to death (Deut 22:21)

If two men are fighting and the wife of one then comes to the rescue of her husband from his assailant and she reaches out and seizes the private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity (Deut 25:11-12)

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives (Deut 22:28-29). (Oh my, that girl has to suffer for the rest of her life with her rapist.)

And how about Lot's insistence on sending out his virgin daughter when he refused to send his male guest out to the rabble of men who wanted to rape him? "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him" (Judges 19:22). "No my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing" (Judges 19:24) (Even if this is to show that Lot provided refuge to his guest, the context in which it was framed seems horrifying to me. Surely there are other exemplars to display his hospitality)

Ezra who isn't technically a prophet, but a "man of God", well versed in God's laws, addressed his tribal elders "You have been unfaithful; you have married foreign women, adding to Israel's guilt. Now make confession to the Lord, the God of your fathers and do his will. Separate yourselves from the peoples around you and from your foreign wives (Ezra 10:10-11). (Is this blatant racist ideology or what?)

Book of Jeremiah - one of the ghasliest sermons from god anywhere in the bible. God far from happy with Israel and Judah's worship of him promises the following if they continue to disobey him: "I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies that seek their lives" (Jeremiah 19:9 NIV) (No doubt a hotheaded god, and this is only one of several examples of violence in the name of god throughout the old testament)

(Well then, god is not so omnipotent then, if he has to bring wrath to his enemies).

****Continued*****

******Continued from previous post********

God made Ezekiel eat "poop" flavored sandwiches for 430 consecutive days to symbolize the prophesized fall of Jerusalem. During the 430 day long street protest god says to Ezekiel that he must feed himself bread made from lentils, barley and beans. But, "eat the food as you would a barley cake; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel. In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I drive them said the Lord (Ezekiel 4:12-13 NIV)

Bible porn: "There she lusted after her lovers whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled (Ezekiel 23:20-21 NIV)

God was portrayed as a jealous god in few places - "I will bring upon you the blood vengeance of my wrath and jealous anger" (Ezekiel 16:38 NIV)
"I will bring a sword against you and I will destroy your high places. Your altars will be smashed; and I will slay your people in front of your idols.... (Ezekiel 6:3-7 NIV) "If a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upin it and kill its men and their animals, even if these three men - Noah, Daniel and Job - were in it, they could save their own sons or daughters by their own righteousness" (Ezekiel 14:12-14) "The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The lord takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies" (Nahum 1:1-2 NIV).

NEW TESTAMENT:

Jesus introduces us to the morally disgusting idea of eternal suffering and torture. Consider as barbaric as the Old Testament is, at least when you died, your suffering was over. Jesus comes along and tells us that we will be burnt perpetually in a place called hell if we don't follow his lead - what a wicked doctrine to scare children with. What an evil concept to motivate people to do what he believes is morally right out of nothing but naked fear alone. If he was morally pure as his followers attest, then why did he not denounce the immorality of slavery. Jesus speaks repeatedly about having slaves but never says anything that would suggest he at least questioned the righteousness of it. The story of Jesus is not a unique tale - consider the stories of gods that preceded the Jesus era - Horus: Son God of Egypt, born on Dec 25th of a virgin Isis-Meri. Had 12 disciples he traveled about with, performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried for 3 days and resurrected. Attis of Phyrigia - born of the virgin Nana on Dec. 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days was resurrected. Krishna of India - born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signalling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples and upon his death was resurrected. Dionysus of Greece - born of a virgin on Dec 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine. Mithra of Persia - born of a virign on Dec 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles and upon his death was buried for 3 days and later resurrected.

Jesus said, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34 NIV) (Not very softspoken or peaceful is he?)

"For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, a man's enemies will be the members of his own household (Matthew 10:35-36 NIV)

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me" (Matthew 10:37-38 NIV) (How come you never hear this preached on the pulpit?)

John quotes Jesus' endorsement of not just the Mosaic Law but all Old Testament laws commanded by God - "Anyone who breaks one of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven" (John 5:1 NIV). Well there you have it, Jesus endorses all the atrocities in the OT including stoning a child to death because of disrespect to the child's parents; a father may sell his daugher (Exodus 21:7), that he may sacrifice her purity to a mob (Judges 19:24), etc. .... "For God said, Honour our father and mother and anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death" (Matthew 15:3-4 NIV)

This passage shatters the myth of a mild, peace-loving Jesus - "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be a king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me" (Luke 19:27 NIV) (What happened to Love your neighbour and love your enemies) (Matthew 5:43-44 NIV)???

"Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumsed. If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?" (Romans 2:25-26 NIV) (So for all uncut guys, we are in violation of God's laws?)

Paul to Romans: "Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflammed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion" (Romans 1:25-26 NIV). (Who says the New Testament does not condemn homosexuals?)

Paul introduces us to the concept of vicarious redemption through Jesus. The repugnant concept that our sins against others can be atoned by saying "sorry" to an unhurt or unaffected third-party. This is merely an adaptation of the old theme of human sacrifice practised by countless civilizations at one time or another to redeem their respective and collective sins. That's where the term "scapegoating" comes from where ancient civilizations would butcher a goat or human child or adult for wrongdoings.

Paul opines on what role women should have in the church: "Now I want you realize that the head of every man is Christ and trhe head of every woman is man and the head of Christ is God" (1 Corinthians 11:3 NIV) "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to enquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the Church" (1 Corinthians 14:33-35NIV)

Paul opines on marriage - "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which is the Saviour. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything" (Ephesians 5:22-24 NIV)

Paul opines on slavery - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and with sincerity in your heart, just as you would obey Christ" (Ephesians 6:5 NIV)

For those who think that Hitler was atheist - "I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work" (Mein Kampf p.65). (Didn't GW Bush mention the same thing, except that you would replace Jews with Saddam Hussein)

God's promise of doom for non-believers - "I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 5-7 NIV)

Jesus curses a fig tree to death because it didn’t bear fruit for him (Mark 11:13-14), and also casts demons into pigs and drowns them (mentioned in Matthew, Mark, and Luke) (I guess Jesus is acting like a spoilt brat and also hates pigs. Is that why the Jewish/Islamic faiths forbid eating pork?)

Finally in Revelation, it mentions only 144,000 people would go to heaven (Rev 14). (What about the estimated few billion believers of the Christian faith? Too bad I guess, or maybe they have to draw straws for who gets to go).

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People believe because they want to feel self-important and refuse to believe that this is the only life they have. They spend their lifetimes living in fear of eternal damnation and look forward to eternal happiness in this fictional place called heaven. How wasteful for not living their full lives on earth without succumbing to this crutch, and how ironic religious funerals are "sad" since the living all believe that their loved ones are in a better place. They should be having the biggest party for the recent dead, and hope that they themselves die an early death to get closer to heaven for an eternity of worshipping their dictator.

"Why would gay people support religion? Because religion isn't anymore evil than you make it"

Oh please, that's the best reason people support religion? So I think I will support homeopathy to treat serious medical conditions, because it isn't anymore evil than people make it. Or I should support communism because on paper it makes perfect sense and isn't more evil than people make of it. And what about totalitarianism in N. Korea? Well, people should support it because it is good for its people and people are just crybabies.

"because believing everything is chance can be just as ignorant as believing in a God and being atheist is a mindset. it's a way of thinking, you believe something even though you can't disapprove the opposite or prove your own view, all you can do is preach it"

Please define "chance" - you obviously do not understand the scientific method, and perhaps you also believe the wacko creationists claim that the earth is 6000-10000 yrs old, despite all evidence to prove otherwise.

Oh please, that's the best reason people support religion? So I think I will support homeopathy to treat serious medical conditions, because it isn't anymore evil than people make it. Or I should support communism because on paper it makes perfect sense and isn't more evil than people make of it. And what about totalitarianism in N. Korea? Well, people should support it because it is good for its people and people are just crybabies.

"because believing everything is chance can be just as ignorant as believing in a God and being atheist is a mindset. it's a way of thinking, you believe something even though you can't disapprove the opposite or prove your own view, all you can do is preach it"

Please define "chance" - you obviously do not understand the scientific method, and perhaps you also believe the wacko creationists claim that the earth is 6000-10000 yrs old, despite all evidence to prove otherwise.[/QUOTE]

"Because religion isn't anymore evil than you make it"
I don't think you understand that religion simply is the belief in something spiritual. What the religion preach is something humans decide. That is how humans decide how evil a religion is, because they make it.

Please define "chance" - you obviously do not understand the scientific method, and perhaps you also believe the wacko creationists claim that the earth is 6000-10000 yrs old, despite all evidence to prove otherwise.

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. In science, nothing, absolutely nothing can be proven. Things can only be disapproved. There exist no 100% or 0%, therefore everything is put at chance.
And the long post about texts from the Bible? Yes, there's a lot in the Bible that shouldn't be there, but it's important to understand that the Bible isn't a book written by God, but by humans. The Koran in Islam is God's words. The Bible is a collection of what many believed to be the most important parts. Nothing in the Bible is written by God or is part of God's word. That's why the Bible undergoes change from time to time and why there's a different version in every language.

Yes, there is nothing absolute about science. Things can be proven and disproved, but when new evidence comes along that disproves something, science adjusts its knowledgebase. Reproducability is key. Yes, the ancient books are all written by humans. That is my point. The claims made by bronze aged people who wrote these books are to explain unexplained phenomena, and to control people by striking fear in them. You should know better as an example with the Nordic gods (zeus) that punished people by striking them with rods of lightning. If the bible undergoes change from time to time, then perhaps it is not reliable. I think I will put my faith in Harry Potter. That story is much more interesting and less violent/immoral. I bet I can pick out better moral values from many other books other than the bible or the koran or any other man-made religious stories. So much misery in the world is based on beliefs and different interpretations of these ghastly texts.

Hehe, okay just to point out, Zeus was a greek god, the nordic god who shot lightning was Thor. And I'm simply trying to say that religion is as simple as believing in something spiritual, that should not be enough for you to call it evil and therefore mock those that consider themselves such. There's already a lot of hate in the world, there's no need for you to increase it by looking down on those that hold different beliefs than you just because you view your thoughts as the correct ones. Yes, a lot of bad stuff have been done in the name of religion, but there will always be something that makes humans kill and destroy, fanaticism and blinding nationalism. Either you kill in the name of God, in the name of truth, in the name of an ideology, there will always be some excuse to get people riled up and become mindless. Abolishing religion is not something that would make the world a better place.

Oops sorry, you're right. Zeus was greek and Thor was the one I was thinking of. I'll have to watch that movie soon.

Oops sorry, you're right.

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Omg, thought never I'd see you say that but nicely debated, you're quite intelligent ^^

Kael said:

Hehe, okay just to point out, Zeus was a greek god, the nordic god who shot lightning was Thor. And I'm simply trying to say that religion is as simple as believing in something spiritual, that should not be enough for you to call it evil and therefore mock those that consider themselves such. There's already a lot of hate in the world, there's no need for you to increase it by looking down on those that hold different beliefs than you just because you view your thoughts as the correct ones. Yes, a lot of bad stuff have been done in the name of religion, but there will always be something that makes humans kill and destroy, fanaticism and blinding nationalism. Either you kill in the name of God, in the name of truth, in the name of an ideology, there will always be some excuse to get people riled up and become mindless. Abolishing religion is not something that would make the world a better place.

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If pointing out what is actually in these texts is mocking, so be it. So many people call themselves believers in the major religions but know so little about what it says. Maybe if more of them actually read them from cover to cover, there would be less and less followers.

Suppressing discussion of religion was what happened 100s of years ago where any criticism will land you dead or tortured. I am glad we are in an era that we can speak freely and openly about it, but not if you're in theocratic societies like the Middle East. I never proposed abolishing religion - it will not make the world problem free. Whenever you abolish anything, it will just make it more popular. That's just human nature. Learning about the silliness of unsubstantiated beliefs and thinking rationally is the answer. You will get more people abandoning religion that way.

I'm sorry if you feel mocked, that wasn't my intention. Religion has gotten away with not being criticized for too long. Fuck this "can't we just all get along" bullshit. It will never work. If we don't bring it out into public discussion, religious privilege will never get challenged. I am trying to point out the benefits of rational thought. In a way liberal and cleaned-up religious factions only serve to continue promoting the legitimacy of the religion engine, which is a shame, because people who are "spiritual" buy into it. I am not saying that a world without religion would be all a bed of roses, but it would certainly remove a huge portion of the conflicts and tribalism in the world today. Of course there'll still be wars and violence in the world, but they will be done in the name of greed, power, and control over populations. You mention a lot of hate in this world already. I submit that this hate is one sided and it is about time that the silent majority of non-believers start voicing their outrage and make it a more balanced playing field! Change requires challenge to the status quo.

yanquis imbeciles, comparar africa y america del sur, get a book loser.
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